Episode 35: Bunmi Akinnusotu
Rachel Kobus 0:09
Welcome to Redbird Buzz. I'm Rachel Kobus from Alumni Engagement. Bunmi Akinnusotu earned her master's in sociology through Illinois State Stevenson Center for Applied Community and Economic Development and from there has been laying a foundation to support others and all this she has done. As director of city innovation at the Aspen Institute Bunmi oversees Bloomberg City Lab and leads efforts to engage city leaders from around the world. Her expertise lies at the intersection of international relations and organization management, where she has excelled in government, nonprofit and higher education. Prior to Aspen Institute, she was the Deputy Director for the international affairs program at Howard University, a department of state funded program that diversifies Foreign Policy and International Affairs sectors. Her career in Washington began in the Obama administration as special assistant in the office of land and emergency management at the US Environmental Protection Agency. There Bunmi supported the agency's engagement with G7 nations participated in outreach efforts during the Flint water crisis and led efforts to clear the backlog of civil rights cases impacting marginalized communities. She was also the chief of staff at Young Professionals and Foreign Policy and managed the US delegation to the G7 and G20 Youth Summit and modernized the organization's fundraising and operations platform. In 2017 Bunmi launched a foreign policy podcast called What in the world, which made foreign policy relevant to everyday people and amplified experts of color. She brings a wealth of knowledge and foreign policy and national security program and fellowship management.
I'm excited to learn much more from today's guest and alum Bunmi Akinnusotu, what's the word, Redbird? Tell us a little bit about yourself.
Bunmi Akinnusotu 1:49
Hi, Rachel. I'm Bunmi Akinnusotu, so excited to be here. And I am a proud Redbird. Hailing from the great state of Rhode Island and currently residing in Washington, DC.
Rachel Kobus 02:00
Yes. And we're so excited to have you. You know, before we hit record, I was telling Bunmi that I know you know very little about foreign policy and the work that she does is greatly involved with that. And, you know, a lot of the jobs you've done, I haven't heard of, I've only heard bits and pieces. So, I'm very excited to talk to you today. But I think it's interesting, you know, we're going to talk about international affairs foreign policy, but you started, you came to ISU to get your Masters. So, you got your bachelor's, and I'm so sorry. From which college both right,
Bunmi Akinnusotu 02:30
it's now Bryant University, but it was Bryan college when I went
Rachel Kobus 02:37
Thank you. Yes, but you got to in computer information systems, and you are a collegiate volleyball player. This wasn't this seems a little different than what you're doing today. So, what got you started with there? And what led you down this path of foreign policy then?
Bunmi 02:53
Yeah, thank you, Rachel. But I think everybody can kind of relate to that. You just you have things in life, you start off with them, and you sort of never know where life takes you. And you end up you know, and someplace completely different. But um, yeah, as you mentioned, I, I majored in computer information systems, and I was a sociology minor. And that's actually what cued up my interest, more academic interest in foreign policy, and international relations. Personally, my family is Nigerian. And so, if you are a child of immigrants, particularly if those family members are still alive in the other country, and your family still connected to each other, you always have kind of like consciousness, I will have people in some other place besides the United States. And so, I grew up listening to you know, my dad and my mom on the phone with people in Nigeria, they sent a lot of money back home, we'd have people who stayed with us, you know, when they would come to the United States and they needed a place to stay, we always have folks like coming in and out of the house. And Nigerians are very community-oriented. So we went to the Nigerian church, and, you know, inevitably the politics comes up and what's happening at home. And then, you know, Nigerians are very pride themselves on being very educated to which they are and so they just have a worldview of what's happening politically, religiously, academically, and a lot of that was just like a part of, I would say, like my life. Yeah. So yes, just like I knew what the United Nations ones was like, when I was five, because like, you'd have just people talking about it in the house. And so academically, though, undergrad was where I really started to, I'd say, expand my knowledge of that and the major or the minor in sociology. The class that I took, I'll never forget was, um, was a female genital mutilation, which is a heavy, heavy topic and I, I didn't know that existed and I was like, wait, what, why? Why, like, I had such a great professor who she kind of helped us unpack the issues and the cultural reasons.
So political challenges of ending that practice in this one particular country, so I was just enthralled by the whole concept, which then made me want to know more about, you know, why people, you know, feel the way they feel why certain cultures are the way they are, and how the United States plays a role in all of that. Right. And that's what, that's what foreign policy is, right? It's US foreign engagement on policies outside the United States, that also impact Americans in some way. So, so yeah, I did that. And then I was part of the generation that graduated just after 9/11. So, I graduated in 2003. And really the only options for work or for anything after you graduated with the military or grad school. And so, I actually was fortunate to get an internship. I knew I wanted to like work in the world, but I wasn't quite ready for the military. And I wasn't really like ready at that time for graduate school. So, I went off and worked for a bank. And was Yeah, I was an auditor, but like, I was doing my auditing, you know, I would audit servers, audit, like servers that held like your ATM information, like it was just wild. But like, I did it, I made money, but like I always had an itch, always had an itch for going abroad, learning about the issues outside of the United States. I would learn about, you know, Yoruba people in Brazil. And I'd be like, what, like, how did that like, what's going on there? All kinds of things. And that's what I find. I found ISU's program, which, which at the time, was called Masters International, and was at the School of Community and Economic Development under Frank Beck, who was amazing. I think he's retired now. So, at that time, President Bush allowed people to have money set aside to pay for your graduate school program and join Peace Corps. But you could go abroad, and I was like, Sign me up. That's exactly what I want to do. But to your point earlier, like, things worked out differently. I came to ISU; I did my coursework. I had a great time, lifelong friends. And then I didn't do Peace Corps, but I did AmeriCorps instead. And so, the trajectory continued. And I'm happy to talk more about like, the trajectory continued on more domestic issues. But in some way, in my life, when I was, you know, working, I had a pulse on international stuff. And one way I was volunteering on a board, I helped Chicago with the Olympic bid. Like, I was always trying to find ways outside of work, to stay engaged with what was just happening in the world.
Rachel Kobus 7:48
Yeah. Well, and asking why, you know, I mean, why is this why that how, why am I? Making sure to just keep asking that question to see why, why everything is the way it is, and how can we make it better and different?
Bunmi Akinnosotu 08:05
Exactly, exactly. And I think you're, you know, you nailed it exactly to the why but it's the how like what how did we get here. How did we get to this point on whatever the thing is? Why are we still in this phase? Or why do we do things for one country but not another country? Or you know, all of the Why are all of our products in China but yet we say China's like the worst. Why you know, so like, all these wise and how’s and I was I was finding what I was looking for any way possible to like feed that that curiosity.
Rachel Kobus 08:37
Well, and so that kind of leads me in. Some of our listeners do know what the Stevenson Center for Applied Community and Economic Development is. Others came to ISU and didn't know anything about it. We have students that listen to this. And so, having you as an alum that went through a very unique master's program compared to some others at ISU, could you give us maybe a little insight or description of how going through the Stevenson Center's program and doing this more hands-on apply community master's program differs from a traditional master's program?
Bunmi Akinnusotu 09:13
Yeah, so one I'm not from Illinois, right so already coming into the environment of like normal Illinois, it was like a learning unique learning experience in and of itself. Rhode Island has much timber what people may not know if you've never been like it's a pretty urban state. We have rural areas, but like, I never saw corn. Well, I never heard tornado sirens. Yeah. Yeah, exactly like middle and it was in my mind like normal was like not that far from Chicago. No, like, it's like two hours away three hours away. Completely different culture. So, the cultural aspects alone were unique to me. And now that was like a learning experience. I was brought out of my shell. Yeah
And so I just Yeah, the festival, the Corn Festival. I was like y'all have a whole Corn Festival like, what. I thought that was so fun. Yeah, the only thing I knew about corn, like in that sense was like the film like Children of the Corn like.
Rachel Kobus 10:16
Right. So glad we open your eyes and on that.
Bunmi Akinnusotu 10:20
Yes, it's definitely a thing. And so that was unique for me. The thing about the Stevenson Center that was also unique, which, in hindsight, I appreciate. At the time, I didn't know because it was my first master's. But it was a small intimate program, where you knew the professors and the staff and the students were intimately connected to each other. They knew your name, they knew your family, they knew what you were interested in. In the same, like I babysat for Professor Maura Toro-Morn, who's over there at the sociology department, and like I babysat her son to make my side. Frank Beck, you know, invited us over to his home many, many times for, you know, Thanksgiving dinner, if we weren't going home, or, you know, Christmas holidays, if we weren't going home. Beverly Beyer, same thing, right. So, we just had a community that was small, that was connected and familiar. Like, even though again, I was coming from the East Coast. I felt like I was around family. And that for me, at that time in life, I didn't even know I needed it. And it was, it was great. And you know, and then I would go off, and like, when I got my second master's, where you're in a program, you know, the professors are great, but it's not like the same sort of intimacy. So, I really appreciated that. And to your point, applied, right? I didn't know that she could, like we would have, like, when I took sociology classes in undergrad, it was all like, theoretical, right? Like, or you would read things and whatever. But the what I liked about the Stevenson Center program is that it gave you a chance to apply it in a real way in community. And not like and you know, yes, some folks went abroad and did Peace Corps and had an amazing experience. And I still wish I had been able to do it. But I still had as much impact and learning working at the domestic violence agency that I worked at in Wheaton, Illinois, that work like forever shaped me. And I still keep in touch with many of the people that I worked with at the domestic violence agency. So, you know, yeah, so the hands-on approach was, but it's not to be understated. Like it really brought to life, the concepts and the issues that we were reading about. Yeah. And you can build skills, like you built real world skills are really important. Yes.
Rachel Kobus 12:52
And I say, and then you by putting those skills together, you started I'm assuming you mentioned AmeriCorps, you mentioned domestic violence programs that you started, I assume finding your place. You wanted those nonprofits to work for finding out, you know, what you believe the world needed to have that to fill the void? Is that kind of that is that is accurate?
Bunmi Akinnusotu 13:22
I think, all things I think, you know, again, hindsight is always better. It's always easier than when you're in the moment. But in hindsight, I just wanted to, I just wanted to make the world better. In my mind, I thought I had to go overseas to do that. Right. But time after time, you know, I believe in God. And so, I feel like God was like, Look, you just need to have things for you to do here. Yes, I don't know that I was quite even ready at that age. Right to go, even though I thought I was but I just had so much skill building people connecting, you know, learning a new culture normal that like, you know, so I just had so much still to learn. And I think there was still an impact in the work that I was doing in the community as well.
Rachel Kobus 14:16
So, I'm going to expand so you graduated from Illinois State. And now you got a second master's and you said the word you pack. So I have this little list I'm going to read because I cannot memorize it. But you know, I sent this to you. And I said, you’ve done so much like usual boonies resume. And I mean, so much. You work with young professionals in the United States to be part of major global gatherings for our well-known youth summits, you work to clear backlogs of civil rights cases, you assisted the communities affected by the Flint water crisis. Then you went over to DC to be a part of the Obama administration for the Environmental Protection Agency. And now I know that you went to we'll talk a little more about Howard University and where you're at now at Aspen, but my goodness.
Bunmi Akinnusotu 14:59
When you went that way, Rachel, it's a lot.
Rachel Kobus 15:01
If I can ask all these questions like so each of these that you went through, how did you? How did you make a difference? I mean, just listening to that we know that you made a difference. We know that you're, you're studying Foreign Policy and International Affairs and bringing it back to the United States of how can we better it? So, from all that, I just said, what, I don't know where to ask, besides, what has been your biggest impact? Have you felt, you know, learning about international affairs, foreign policy and having the impact of all these jobs you've done? What is? What does that feel like? What's the biggest impact you've had?
Bunmi Akinnusotu 15:32
Yeah, the biggest impact I have is, it has come as of late, which is like being able to connect with people like you and really young people about this field. Yeah, like, again, I wanted to step in this field to actually work on the issue. Like, I was very interested in like gender issues, I wanted to help women, abroad and the United States, I wanted to like to inform, you know, democracy and peace and security like I had, I wanted to actually be in the action. I just, that's where I thought I was gonna make impact. But I didn't. And that's okay. Where I made an impact is, like you said, I was able to sort of live my life and do all these things. But that built information that I can then pass on to somebody else, who wanted to be able to be a diplomat, who wants to be able to go to Peace Corps, who wanted to be able to go to grad school, like I could talk about, look, here, my experiences are two very different grad school programs, here are the things you want to think about. Right? I would not be able to do that. Had I sort of pigeonholed myself into peace and security expert or democracy, like whatever not to say that people who do that are not impactful? But I think, but yeah, what you're what you're when you list those things, like I don't hear like, I mean, it's a lot. But when I and I swear I'm focused, like I swear. But like, I, what I what I hear is someone who is who wants to help one but has collected information, and people along the way, who can help influence or inspire other people to do the things that they do. And impact can be like trade negotiations with, you know, Peru impact could be dealing with child combats in, you know, Vietnam. But impact could also be a student comes to you, or young person emails you or send you a message on LinkedIn, and says, hey, I'm interested in interning at State Department, can you spare a little bit of time to talk to me through that applicant like that tint, like, that feels like that is impact to me, and the number of emails I get, or texts or whatever, from people like, Oh, I got this internship, I or I connected with this person, because of like, that is not something, you know, again, like 20 years ago that I was like, that's what I want to do. It just has become the impact that I've been able to, like, make. Well, like, without planning it.
Rachel Kobus 18:16
And you saying that, I mean, to me, it really sounds like every person needs a foundation. And yeah, we're the foundation for many people. You're smarter. You're there. I mean, really, that's what you're describing. Right? Like, we diplomats, there can be governors, there can be lobbyists there can exactly every person needs some type of support and foundation to build and teach them and you're giving your life to make sure to be a foundation for people. So yeah.
Bunmi Akinnusotu 18:41
You nailed it in the sense that like, I didn't have that knowledge set when I was in college, like an undergrad. I didn't know. What did I did what I didn't know. And so I was just I played sports as a way to get through college. I love playing volleyball, but like, my focus was on like, making sure I had good grades. I played my sport and I was able to like afford to pay for college. So, I did internships or whatever. But there was no like, oh, you can intern at the State Department. No one was coming to my school to do that. Oh, you can do a Fulbright when I heard Fulbright. I'll never forget. When I saw a Fulbright when I was in college, I thought that that was for like people who are like Nobel Peace. Like I was like, Fulbright, now like Fulbright. So, it's just like that to me. And like not anybody can be a Fulbright, like, I know Fulbright to do lots of really cool things. Any age, like any background, like that's not a you know, but I didn't know that when I was 20-21 years old, or even 25 for that matter, like and so whatever I can pass down to somebody else to build that foundation to inspire them to keep going like to me that is the most pleasing feeling to have.
Rachel Kobus 19:56
Yeah, well, I appreciate you sharing that, and you have been impactful. And, you know, I think one of that is you become a big educator. And that's why I wanted to ask you onto the show, because like I said, to begin with foreign policy is something that not a lot of people understand. And I know you even launched several seasons of a podcast called What in the world just to try to explain to people foreign policy it, it's, you know, I think it was, you know, you started working at Howard University, you got more into international relations, foreign policy, you know, you're doing it beforehand, too. So, I wanted to bring that word up. People say, foreign policy, you did this whole podcast route to try to create relevancy. So, can you give me a lesson right now? Like, and I can tell you what in the world, she has several seasons of how-to foreign policy in your everyday life. But yes, yeah. See, like, people just throw it around, like, oh, yeah, it's a policy, you know, working foreign policy. And yeah, foreign policy. It's like, what is yeah, what is it?
Bunmi Akinnusotu 20:54
What What is it it's you. It's you. It's the clothes you're wearing. It's the phone, it's that watch on your wrist. It's their jewelry. It's your home, in a way. It's, it's, it's you it's us, right. And I tell that and what I loved about that podcast, I started when I was unemployed, actually, before our I left the Obama administration. And like many of us, you know, when the President leaves, you ain't got no job. So, I had time, I was slightly depressed, because I couldn't find work. There's just a lot going on in 2017 that year, and I had time. And so, I figured out how to stay busy. And the podcast in the mind when I heard people, you know, saying things that were just wrong about, you know, Muslims, and there was a whole thing about the Muslim ban. And then, you know, Mexico and building the wall. And I was like, people don't understand that, like, these policies, quote, unquote, are actually impacting your life, even though you're not said Muslim, or Mexican or whatever, even though you're not at the border. Like you are actually, as American people. You know, it doesn't. So in one of the first episodes I looked at, were avocados, right? So, I said, You are foreign policy, your life is foreign policy, look at your avocado, or any fruit and your refrigerator for that matter, probably comes from a different place, or another country. And in my case, it was when I looked at this avocado was it's an issue in Mexico. And it's I mean, like, I did research, I got curious like, wait a minute, I was like this, what's going on with our avocados? Like, why aren't we have Why don't we have American avocados? Why do we have so many avocados when you know all the things, and then I found out their trade agreements, and the trade agreements benefit not only Mexicans, but they benefit us because it would be more expensive for us to have our own avocados. It's cheaper to have Mexican, I forgot it was like, so like, there's a whole like thing. And that's an avocado that starts with an avocado, you can take anything out in your life, your phone, the phones, the device, zoo like all these things have an international component to it. And so, what I tell people is like you are foreign policy, if you look at immigration, let like the majority of Americans today come from people who migrated from another country that was a hot mess. Yeah, for lots of reasons right now, that is foreign policy, right? Because they those people back then were, like, you know, we're leaving, we're leaving this country, Ireland, Italy, wherever. And we're gonna go to this place, Spain, we're going to come to this place. And we're going to set up shop here, right, and try to recreate our own form of living. Right. That is, that is US foreign policy like that immigration, the stuff we talk about today, people who want to come here are not coming here because they want to get in a boat or die in the ocean. They want a better life. And there there's something at home, that is stopping them for whatever reason, you know, from having that life. And that is no different than any other time 250 years ago with the founding of the country. So that's why I was like we are foreign policy, but we get so the rhetoric sometimes, unfortunately, blinds us to the very personal nature of policy. And that's why I started the podcast because I was like, I want us to unpack the stuff we're hearing in the news, and take an objective historic look at how we got to where we are. And what is it mean for Rachel when we when we remember 2017 or 2018? The cost of beef like skyrocketed like I mean, and that was because we were having trade issues with China. Right? And people didn't know like people had valid questions like what's the issue with China beef and what's the issue between the US and like, so people I thought like, we can have a conversation about these things and related back to people's lives, and not make people feel like you have to pick a blue side or a red side or Northern, you don't like none of that stuff matters. It's just you, you, Rachel, your life, my life, you know, our families like are influenced by all of these things. And so, I just wanted us to come to terms come to terms come to that reality that, you know, foreign policy is actually a lot closer than we think it is.
Rachel Kobus 25:27
Yeah. And it makes me feel good. You know, obviously, you do your research, I think that's the key part. But you don't have to have a degree in foreign policy or national affairs, you don't have to know that most educated 10 degrees down the road to understand it either. We should all be understanding and knowing what's impacting our lives and policies are a big part of that we just kind of forget about and say someone else's doing that.
Bunmi Akinnosotu 25:48
Someone else's, yeah. And that's for better or worse with America, right. Like, we're not a fortunately, we're not a country where we have to worry about people bombarding our shores, or cutting off our electric supply or whatever, right? Like we're not in a constant state of tension, right? That's not the case for a lot of countries. And so, people in those countries are going to be a little bit more in tune with the United States, even more so than Americans right? Now, they're gonna know, like, America was involved in this or that we need the Americans for this, right. So as citizens, I give us a little bit of grace in that, like, we are fortunate to not have to worry about a lot of things that would perk up our, you know, global consciousness to begin with. If you're if someone is a refugee, right, and comes to United States, of course, they're going to have a different perspective on US foreign policy, because they're coming from a country that probably had issues, right. So, they're here as a refugee. Right. So, I give them a little give a little bit of grace. But to your point, I think that asking why and asking how is not a horrible thing. And using reputable resources, reputable ballast resources to give you the historical context of what's happening, is not a harmful thing. So, you don't need to have a PhD. I don't have a PhD. I mean, I have a master's in international relations. Yeah, it's not. It's just curiosity in the same way that you asked, like, I asked the same questions. So, I just decided to create a podcast around it.
Rachel Kobus 27:25
Well, I'm glad you did, too. And I said, you know, I know. You only did so many seasons. But in those seasons, just looking through all the different episodes that you covered, it really does teach people like how to think differently and just ask questions. And it means people place to another place to go find factual, credible information to doing research is important. So yeah.
Bunmi Akinnusotu 27:40
And I had no agenda with a podcast, which I love. Like, I was not pushing anybody's agenda. I was unemployed. No one was funding me. I wasn't paying using my unemployment money to pay for my podcast,.
Rachel Kobus 27:50
I see where my avocado came from!
Bunmi Akinnusotu 27:51
Exactly. Like there was no agenda. It was just to learn. Yeah, it was just and have a little bit of fun.
Rachel Kobus 28:01
Yeah, no, I think it is. And it's good to make things that I think are, you know, scary words, or just sometimes go above people's heads, make them fun, and make people want to listen more about them, too. And that's why I'm happy to have alums like you on the show where we can talk about, right we get to talk about things that other people may never get to hear about another way. So, it may not see yourself as an expert, but I bet compared to you know, again, me, for example, or a lot of our listeners is oh, this is this is different. This is interesting, because it's not my everyday life. Yeah, it's my everyday life, because foreign policy is my everyday life. Now. I just want so yeah, yeah.
Bunmi Akinnusotu 28:44
The Normal, the corn industry in Normal and you know, this. I remember the Saturn company; the Saturn car seems to be out there. Mitsubishi?. One of them. Like, all of that is connected to that corn is going somewhere.
Rachel Kobus 28:58
I knew you're gonna bring corn backup. But you're right, it is. Absolutely. So, I wanted to lean more on what you're currently doing because I think it's very interesting. And I'm still trying to understand it, but it's just unique in my mind that it's the Aspen Institute. It has 15 locations I read just for all over the world from DC to Japan. And then it focuses on thought leaders, scholars, members, even allowing members of the public to just come in and talk about, again, maybe foreign policy, the sense but the complex problems of the world. Is that correct?
Bunmi Akinnusotu 29:39
You nailed it. Rachel. You are you are Aspen’s ambassador. Yeah, you. You nailed it. And yeah, I would just add that I just do all of that in the context of mayors and the role that local leaders play in addressing these global problems. It doesn't matter if it's Chicago or Detroit or Louisville or Nagasaki, Japan, right? Or Kigali, Rwanda, right like, so I get to literally tug on everything you listed in my bio. I get to tug on a lot of different pieces to bring that to this role, where I convene mayors and local leaders to discuss their challenges, but more importantly, their solutions so that other cities can replicate it, it'd be like, Oh, you're dealing with public safety and AI, like, these are the like, these are the questions that we have. How did you all approach it? Right. And that's, you think that that already happens, but it doesn't. And the Aspen Institute is very much again, a trusted nonpartisan space convening space for people to dialogue without feeling insignificant, or dumb or like, or, you know, feeling like, you know, your voice is not heard, like people trust the Aspen Institute, this sort of the Aspen magic, if you will, yeah. And so I've only been in the role six months, but I'm seeing already the value of just like talking to people.
Rachel Kobus 31:15
Yeah. It's just a thing. So it's just fascinating to me, because we do need that space. Because you know, that space isn't available for maybe many people, too. So to be able to bring it in. I'm assuming you do. Obviously, you focus on mayor's but I'm sure there's other leaders, other types of Yeah. All the different types of industries or like just coming together and doing that.
Bunmi Akinnusotu 31:44
That's very unique. What Yeah, place to, it's really great. It's really great. I, you know, I have my moments where I'm like, Wow, I'm actually like, here. Again, not anything that I in college would have even like, I remember seeing the Aspen Institute as an internship or something in college, but I just thought it was so like, high in the sky. Like, I didn't think that anybody like me from little state, Rhode Island could ever work there. So, I never, you know, ever, but I wouldn't be here.
Rachel Kobus 32:15
So, when you bring so again, because you're under the city innovation, public programs and working with you. So, what is your role then? So, getting together figuring out what they should discuss talking to you beforehand?
Bunmi Akinnusotu 32:28
Great question. So, in partnership with Bloomberg Philanthropies, which is former New York Mayor, Michael Bloomberg, his philanthropic organization, we put on this event called City Lab. And through City Lab, we I, in particular, will work on content for that event. So, it's a convening or a summit of mayors and urban leaders to talk about, again, the solutions and the things that are coming next, right, what are the next frontier of solutions and potentially issues that we should all be aware of. And so my role is particularly around identifying those issues, the content for that event, finding the speakers who can really hold the audience captive, you know, with their comments, you know, the one thing that's interesting about Aspen that I, you know, it's a challenge, but nonetheless, I accepted and they hired me, so I think I'm okay. But you know, the idea of the role of art and culture, and its impact on policy, right? How can we use the creative mind to spark curiosity of policymakers or local leaders, you know, like when you're so used to doing something a particular way, or looking at an issue of particular, or looking at a group of people particularly, that's not good. And so, we believe very much in the founding of Aspen, that arts, culture, creativity, music, all of those things can help sort of broaden our mindset, and you can look at it, it's not a heart, people might be like, Oh, that's not necessarily it's not what we need. But it's actually true if you look at even with children, right, like, you look at children. So the reason why we have plays is because we want them to learn. Yeah, yeah, we want them to learn, you know, we put things in front of them that like spark all the things in their brain to make them want to learn and that's what that's what this platform that's what I do is I work with Bloomberg Philanthropies and several others to identify those creative outlets that can inspire a new way of thinking about a particular issue.
Rachel Kobus 34:35
Well, perfect is that for you to meet people think outside the box to look at you look at life and ask why why are you doing this and why can't you do a different like really honestly like it's just a path like yes
Bunmi Akinnusotu 34:48
And or look like somebody else did it this way? Why can't Yeah, like, why can't you know there's nothing what could you learn from like, you know, an architect. Yeah, you know, the way you're architect what could you learn? How could you apply the way a graphic designer, you know, approaches a project, how can what can you learn from that as a local leader or as a mayor, right? Like, never know, you never know interest and love it. So I was very curious.
Rachel Kobus 35:12
So Aspen Institute is how amazing and kind of envious of you actually right now.
Bunmi Akinnusotu 35:18
Don't be envious.
Rachel Kobus 35:21
It just sounds very again, bringing it basically bringing kind of the right-left side of the brain and bring the creative to the logical, like how to make all these people like use both sides to make changes.
Bunmi Akinnusotu 35:40
You nailed it, Rachel, you nailed it. That's exactly it. That's exactly it. Myself included, by the way. Oh, yeah, I know, well, hey,
Rachel Kobus 35:40
I think we kind of seen through, you know, what you've done is you it's other also about learning, keeping, finding different ways changing, making progress, and a lot of the stuff you're doing is just that, too. So, my final question for you is, what's next, then? What are you gonna add to your resume?
Bunmi Akinnusotu 35:57
Oh, I don't know. A hard question. I, you know, I haven't I'm not a I'm not a very good like planner. When it comes to at least like my career, I kind of just go with truly that sounds cliched like I go where the Spirit leads me like, it's kind of like, yeah, like, it's something if I see something that striking to me, I'll now I will apply or put my foot forward. I think where I'm at right now is just how do I do really well, where I'm at, like, I, you know, spent a lot of my time bouncing around, but that's exhausting. One. And two, if you're like truly trying to make impact, you kind of have to stay somewhere a little bit longer than like two years. And so I you know, and we're not from this generation that used to stay in a job for like, 30-40 years, like, that's not usual for people like under 60, under 50. Right. So, it's hard to say, but I do believe that like staying somewhere and staying put long enough, you can really make an impact. But I don't know. I guess I'm just focused on this role. And at the same time, like just where I'm at in life, like, focusing on family, focusing on the deep relationships I've had with friends, and just being healthy. That's just where I'm channeling a lot of my energy these days.
Rachel Kobus 37:36
Good for you. I think a lot more people should do that, too. So good, you know, taking care of ourselves and figuring out our personal and professional life balance. That's a great way to, I think no, that's too
Bunmi Akinnusotu 37:45
You can't pour from an empty cup is what I say.
Rachel Kobus 37:47
Hey, I like it. Oh, well, we thank you so much for joining us. This is amazing. And I know it was just a glimpse into your life and understanding a little bit more about foreign policy. And some you know, I think, again, new organizations, new ways of thinking. So thank you again, so much.
Bunmi Akinnusotu 38:05
I appreciate it, Rachel. Thanks for being out. And for this opportunity. I'm really excited for this show.
Rachel Kobus 38:22
And that was alum and Redbird changing the world Bunmi Akinnusotu, thanks for listening and tune in next time for more stories from beyond the Quad.