Episode 3: Jim Bennett
Rachel Kobus 0:09
Welcome to another episode of Redbird buzz. I'm your host Rachel Kobus, from Alumni Engagement. A career of service and leadership began for Jim Bennett as an undergraduate student completing a marketing degree at Illinois State. He served on the Academic Senate was president of the Association of Residence Halls and founded a campus chapter of the American Red Cross. From his time at ISU, Jim has devoted his career to giving a voice to those who may not otherwise be heard by holding roles in several nonprofits. He then served for 11 years as Midwest regional director for Lambda Legal, the nation's largest legal organization dedicated to securing the full civil rights of individuals in the LGBTQ community, before being appointed as the Illinois Department of Human Rights director in 2019. Here he leads the agency charged with enforcing Illinois laws ensuring fair treatment for all. Jim is also an ISU Steve and Sandi Adams Legacy Hall of Fame inductee and one of the inaugural recipients of the ISU Alumni Association, Andrew Purnell Jr. Trailblazer Award.
We're here with 1987 graduate Jim Bennett, who is currently the director of human rights for the state of Illinois. So Jim, what's the word Redbird? Tell us a little bit about yourself.
Jim Bennett 1:29
Oh my gosh. So I graduated over 100 years ago. I loved Illinois State. My degree was in marketing, but I was a horrible student and except for the first semester, I was good, so I was gonna really prove myself to my parents and I wanted--I didn't want to get taken out. So I'd got really good grades. I really applied myself that first semester and then it all went downhill. But like for me, ISU was Student Affairs. It was I, I became an RA my sophomore year. And that was huge, because my hall coordinator was a civil rights leader named Trish Williams, and she studied under Isabel Briggs from Myers Briggs. So we were all part of her. [That's amazing.] Oh, yeah, it was really cool. And then we found out later we were picked by our Myers Briggs types, because she was working on her, I think Ph.D. at the time. So we were extreme. So I was I was an extreme ENFP. So they knew what they were getting. They knew what they were getting. And so that was my really my beginning into Student Affairs. And then I ran for student government and got involved in that and, and that was also probably the beginning of my real work and like human and civil rights, because my advisors were both African American women. Geneva Walker Johnson had marched with Martin Luther King, she had a brick thrown at her and had these amazing stories. And it was something I had never, certainly directly experienced. My parents are, are very progressive, or were very progressive. So I was certainly aware in respect to that history. But Geneva helped me apply it. And so like, when I was in student government, I got to, you know, work with the Black Student Union and figure out ways to make our student government more diverse. And, you know, we probably failed more times than we succeeded. But that's when I, that's when I learned the beauty of the fight. Like there's a joy in, in, in this struggle, and, and people are more happy, and we're more fun. And we, we party more, you know, it was all good.
Rachel Kobus 3:46
Well, and that's all so I do have to bring up because you did mention this to me via email about how you did have a specific lesson where you decided that sometimes classes weren't as important as maybe watching a specific TV show story arc play out. And I said, You know what, that's fine. Because I think life lesson from that is then you learn time management, and how to manage your classes around your favorite pastimes too. So things we learn in and outside of the classroom at ISU, and look where you are now as director of human rights for the state of Illinois.
Jim Bennett 4:18
We didn't have VCRs like now, you couldn’t just tape and watch whenever it was. So the residence halls had cable which, which actually our student government helped do but we didn't there, you know, it was One Life to Live and Vicki Buchanan's personality had shattered into a million pieces and that whole week she was in heaven confronting each of her personalities and definitely something that had to be what's going to come more important than that world history. Well,
Rachel Kobus 4:50
I mean, maybe not, but you learned a lot from I'm sure both
Jim Bennett 4:56
I did. And that teacher finally asked, ‘What was going on?’ And I just couldn't fast and he's like, ‘Fine, like, I'll see see you at the end of the week, we'll try to get you caught up.’ So
Rachel Kobus 5:09
And still got the degree and now doing great things. And but like you said, a lot of this came from student affairs outside the classroom. And you mentioned how your mentors really started your journey in civil rights. And so, after, after you graduated, can you talk a little bit about what fueled that fire? I guess, after Illinois State, and what did you see yourself doing? How'd you get to where you are? Sure, a lot of questions. So
Jim Bennett 5:34
I sort of went in two paths. So interestingly, I was not out in college. My plan was to come out between my freshman and sophomore year, and I chose or maybe ISU did for me, a hall coordinator when I became an RA, that was sort of known to like, help people come out. And so almost all of us on that floor, were either gay or closeted, and they sort of sensed it. But he left he left over that summer. So that's how I got Trish, but it was also the very beginning of the AIDS crisis or the AIDS epidemic. And so for me, it was just too terrifying the thought of being out, and, and so when I first graduated, I definitely gravitated toward nonprofits. And so I began working for the Red Cross in Peoria. And that was amazing. And a lot of my experience from ISU especially around coalition building and student government and that type of work. That became part of my work at Red Cross because Operation Desert Storm, which was sort of the first war with Iraq over Kuwait, but it was very short lived and fast that we had to build a coalition and all my experience from ISU came back. And at the same time, I was still on this journey of coming out. So I was I was connected to Mike Shermer, who was the head of Student Affairs at the time, who was also not out yet. And so both of us were sort of finding our path and, and my group of friends was still at ISU, and it was easy to come down there. And so both of those are sort of happening at the same time. And then I, like I said, that's an answer. Yeah.
Rachel Kobus 7:27
Yeah. No. And then what from there? Obviously, you, you went from American Red Cross, and then I believe a couple other nonprofits for you dove into being at Lambda Legal, right. Is that, right? Yeah, yes. And that's where you really, so by that point, I'm guessing you are out. And you started the journey on the path for same sex marriage equality. So obviously, your personality and your personal life, did that reflect in that work? And did that give you that, you know, when you came out that power to be like, ‘Okay, I need to help others,’ like, I guess, how did that all work out? Then to get to where that point in your life?
Jim Bennett 8:10
Yeah, I Well, I found that I'm only good at what I care about, like, I know, there's sometimes I envy people that can just go make a ton of money and, you know, sort of and have their passion and interest on the side. And that's just never worked for me, I get bored too easily. And so I, when I first moved to Chicago, I moved here thinking that I you know, I'm going to be gay, so I need to be in a big city to do it. So I came here and I went to work for a group called the Sargent Shriver Center on Poverty Law. And they, they focus on, on developing anti-poverty programs and strategies. And we worked a lot with Lambda at the time. So we would have a bill like on the Family Leave Act in Illinois. And then we would bring in Lambda to do what we called ‘gaying up the bill,’ which was to figure out how to make it available to everyone. So they would work with us to maybe write the bill in a more general way. So it could include, you know, grandparents, but also include LGBT, you know, yes, parents, and, and at the time, we didn't have marriage. So even if you were together as a couple for 20 or 30 years, you were legal strangers. And so in terms of adoption and all those issues, we just had no rights at all. And, and so I was drawn to Lambda and, and so my activism before that, before Lambda was both through my church at this very progressive United Methodist Church, Broadway United Methodist, that was really great and on the frontlines of trying to make the church more inclusive. And then I was taking classes at Second City, and we formed a gay troupe called GayCo that Second City was really supportive of. And that was the best because I, I felt like there's a way to make change through humor, you know, people's defenses are down. And you can sort of show a situation like you could we could do a scene on marriage and just show how mundane marriage is and like, why is anyone fighting so hard over this on either side. So I, you know, so I was moving into activism, and that's between Striver Center and Lambda had hired my theatre company to do benefits. And so when the regional director position opened, I went for it. And at the time, I never could have believed where we are today, like it would have been impossible to imagine being able to marry. I think when you come out, you sort of allow a lot of those dreams to die: having kids, getting married, you know, taking the job you want. Yeah. And Lambda was just at the beginning of looking between Illinois and Iowa, as to where to start the marriage fight in the Midwest, and we decided Iowa was the best because it's the most educated state in the union. You know, there's nothing else to do in Iowa except go to school, right?
Rachel Kobus 11:13
Right, Yep. Yep.
Jim Bennett 11:16
And, and they have a real respect for their own constitution like we would have plaintiffs call us potential plaintiffs. And they would recite the Iowa motto on our voice machine as to the case of like, why we needed to start there. And so that was really my first work of marriage of just like bringing people together. And because of my experience in church, I was, I was sort of sent to the churches and trying to talk to them and, you know, bring people along to sign on to amicus briefs and things like that. And then when we finished in Iowa, Illinois was the next place to go and it's my home state. You know, I grew up in Springfield, and everything came together then because I worked with Dave Bentlin at Illinois State who helped us find plaintiffs in the heartland. And so we started finding couples. You know, one was an executive, I believe at State Farm, we had a retired teacher at ISU so you know, all my connections there, you start finding your alumni friends that are living in different states and making connections and then just working, you know, and figuring out we went with all different approaches both the court system and then also trying to win it legislatively. And you know, I you know, it's very funny because I think back and you know, many of even the ISU grads were the representatives we need like Elgie Sims, you know, who was key to bringing the Black Caucus along and he was an ISU alum. And I'm confident that was my door opener of like, I'm a fellow Redbird. Please, please see me.
Rachel Kobus 13:05
It's so amazing to hear. Illinois State really kept with you your whole your whole career. I don't know what else to say. Like, that's just, I just love hearing it. I love knowing that you always have Redbirds supporting you.
Jim Bennett 13:18
Well, yeah, it has. And I also feel like there's ISU provides this. It's like, the door's always open, you know, and you and you sort of feel like you don't know quite what you want to do, when at least I didn't when I left. And in fact, like, I really thought I was just going to stay I was going to be a graduate assistant because they had apartments in the residence halls. Amazing. That's, that's the best I can do. And, and it was Jude Boyer who was our vice president of Student Affairs at the time. And I told her that was my plan. I was going to stay as a graduate assistant and live in Watterson and she just goes, ‘It is time for you to move on. Like like you are not you know, the student who blew off a week of classes for soap operas,’ you know, so she's like, ‘You need to go out and do something else. And if you want to come back in a few years, you know to get your degree we'll talk you know,’ and that I so one like I was pushed out but [in a good way in a good way] in a really good way. And then Jude is you know, one example of many you know, Mike Shermer, I can think of several that stayed with me and would check in with me and bring me in to talk to class and I'm sure the class is like, ‘This is our example of where alums are to go.’ But they always made room for me and so to this day, and so I'm always so thankful because it's the thing about ISU is it's so it's big. I mean like and there's people that are in so many different specialties or you know, I met a lot of acting friends, you know, it's turned out to sort of be my, you know, my gay friends that I ran around with and then in my marketing program and marketing certainly set me up for everything I've done in nonprofits because nonprofits recognized at that time you need to be, you need to be good in business as well as care about the cause. And I was trained on both sides from ISU, so I was really ready to go.
Rachel Kobus 15:26
Yeah, no, I agree. So you work with the Lambda Legal for, I want to say--
Jim Bennett 15:35
about 11 years. So I did, we got through the marriage fight, ultimately, won in the Supreme Court.
Rachel Kobus 15:43
How did that feel? I mean, once that went down, how did you feel afterwards, the day after the month after?
Jim Bennett 15:52
It was stressful, like the, the victory in Illinois was the best it was, it was my home state, it made it possible for me to get married. So rarely do you get to work on some issue and then benefit directly from that issue. And then the federal the U.S. Supreme Court victory was a year away. But by that time, the rule was, and all the and all the organizations as ACLU and others, that whoever won marriage had to, in that state had to clean up the mess. And so in some states, Illinois was great, like, because it's a more progressive state, and everyone sort of embraced it. And states like Indiana, there was a tremendous backlash. So at the time, like Governor Pence was pushing this religious freedom bill that basically would create ‘marriage light,’ you know, it would, it would make it easier for doctors not to see LGBT, or adoptions not to have to adopt to, you know, lesbian moms or gay dads. And so, my job would, would, would extend to after the victory and, and sort of these, you know, when you win the pendulum then swings back the other way, and you have to really stop the damage that happens. So I, I spent a lot of time in Indiana, a lot of time in the Dakotas and, and just trying to sort of figure that out. So by the time we won, we won marriage nationally, at least for me, my work was focused in the states that, that were going to see a backlash whether that was Indiana or the Dakotas, a little bit in Ohio. And, and so, the work never--we didn't, it certainly didn't let up. But to have that kind of victory behind you is amazing. And then the one thing that's fascinating, I think about the marriage, when you look like today with the fight over abortion and comparing that to our civil rights struggle with abortion, the percentages of support or people that are against reproductive rights, stays relatively frozen in time. With marriage, we would see our percentages go up, we knew that if we could get a state to 44% acceptance, that we could, that that would stop any kind of counter measures to stop it. And we also knew that once you won marriage, and people start seeing their friends and neighbors get married, and there's just a joy in marriage, that joy, weddings, maybe not marriage, but in the wedding
Rachel Kobus 18:37
celebrations, right, in the
Jim Bennett 18:39
celebration, that people were very supportive, and we would gain support. So that's what was sort of incredible as to watch, even in Illinois, reps and senators that voted against marriage, and I'd see them three months later, conducting a marriage in their district. And, you know, I, I want to always make sure we always give room to people to evolve and to find a new place like, you know, in my current work, you know, where we're investigating discrimination. You know, we you find people that just feel like they've hit the end of the world because they've been accused of discrimination. And my feeling is, this is not you did not murder someone you can learn from this and move on. And if and if we can provide enough space for people to recognize where they were at and to find a new place almost anyone who's gay, that found that it was very hard at the beginning and then slowly as their friends almost find a new and closer relationship with them, their parents, who never quite understood what was going on and find a way to love their child over these, you know, sort of misunderstandings or narrow beliefs that they had it the relationship becomes better and acceptance gets better. And that's what I think you've watched in the LGBT community is this greater acceptance as time has gone on. So that's, that's been beautiful to watch.
Rachel Kobus 20:11
Well, and you've said it beautifully. And so thank you for sharing that. And one, one thing you did also say, and I have to mention, so Jim is one of our recipients of the inaugural Andrew Purnell Jr. Trailblazer Award from the Alumni Association, and to listen to you talk about, you know, one community that obviously you have a passion for, you now have to work for thousands of different communities. And you said something in your remarks from the award, and I have to say it correctly, is how ‘any less than equal is not equal.’ And now I feel like in your current job as director of human rights, that's what you're working for, for a variety of groups. So can you, can we jump forward now to 2019? Jim got appointed as director of human rights, and those are words, I feel like you have to live by for many, many, many people. And what's that, like?
Jim Bennett 21:08
It is the greatest job. I can't even believe I’m in it. So the human rights law in Illinois is the best in the country. Without exaggeration, it's, it's, you know, we use like the Civil Rights Act federally as our floor, and then Illinois has built on it over the years and in a very bipartisan way. So the protections we have in Illinois are, are greater than any other state, I believe, except for maybe Delaware and Delaware, it's so small. So our job is focusing on anyone that's been discriminated against can come before us. And we conduct a neutral investigation and determine if there's substantial evidence. And, and so you're exactly right, like to be part of all these different communities that have issues or are struggling. And in my time, our work has been primarily in expanding the act with the Black Caucus that after the murder of George Floyd, the Black Caucus really was determined to put laws into place in Illinois that built a more fair and just and equitable state. And so to get to be a part of that, and to expand protections for things like conviction records. Like if you've done your time, you should still be able to go out and get a job or, or earn rent, or to be able to get a house. Like it shouldn't be that because the house is Black-owned, that it's valued less than it is anywhere else. So one, it's just been an incredible job to be in. And then under this Governor Pritzker when, when we saw cuts or sort of a pullback of human rights protections federally under the Trump administration, Governor Pritzker was determined to use our agency and the Human Rights Act, to make sure that we did not take a step back in Illinois. So for example, there was a cut in in trans people's health protections that was done by an executive order by then President Trump, and we were able to work with our human rights law and the Department of Insurance and the Department of Human Rights to put together those protections. So nothing changed in Illinois. And then to just speak of Andrew Purnell who the award is named after. I mean, it's really an honor to get that award and I have not yet deserve this award.
Rachel Kobus 23:50
You have it so you deserve it.
Jim Bennett 23:52
I guess I'm looking at it right now. It's right in my corner of my room. But you know, he continued his work all the way up till 90. And when you look back at his time at Illinois State, he started the NAACP, on campus, he did some of the very first sort of litigation where they would send someone white in and then send someone Black in and see how they were treated differently. And everything that I did, whether it was at the Shriver Center or Lambda was based on an NAACP model. So his award means a lot to me. But even more so in his in his later years, he just showed up. Like you would go to any event at Illinois State and he would just be there. He was just this incredible gracious presence and always, always made people feel welcome, especially for Black students and bringing in students from Chicago. So he's just an example of what it means to be to be present in the fight and to find joy in the fight. To recognize that it's a long road, and there's a lot of steps back, but we're never going to likely hit full equality. And, you know, we watch in the Supreme Court now, this effort to take rights away. But I think it's very hard once you have a taste of freedom, once you have a taste of how things can be, and really, really live a quality--to try to take that away. So, you know, we have some interesting times ahead, but I think this generation coming up right now is the most diverse and most accepting generation in this country's history. So I have hope.
Rachel Kobus 25:44
Yeah, I agree with you. And, you know, can you share a little bit? What kind of advice would you give to those that may or may have challenges to overcome and are trying to be active and seek rights for others? What have you learned, I guess, what's stuck with you, as you go through all these different paths and journeys, and helping others.
Jim Bennett 26:12
Don't write anyone off. I mean, there's always the extremes that you're never going to get to, but there's, there's a huge moveable middle and, and they just need to be educated and informed. So it makes me nervous when people see the world in black and white, because it's very gray. And, so to find to figure out and find who your allies are, to recognize that it's a long road, and that any part you play is a critical role. So I enjoy convening and organizing, and I like to, you know, I'm a leader in the sense that I like to be in the front, I have no organizational skills, I have horrible, a horrible inability to sort of see my goal and figure out the steps that get me there. And so I work very hard at finding people for the things that I'm not good at, and, and handing it over to them. And so to have a vision of what you want, that's big enough that other people can join you. And then to find the commonalities between our causes. So like, even in the marriage fight, what we found, and when we were working on it was a lot of the groups we were trying to pull in, were focused on immigration, at the time, there was a hope for a comprehensive immigration bill. And we're coming to them and they're like, ‘Are you serious? Like, we're trying to get this done, we're halfway through.’ And we realized, like, we could multitask, we could be, we could work on multiple issues at a time and, and when, you know, a high tide raises all boats. So that's probably my best advice. And then just to have fun, you know, that there really is, I just think of, of the people I spend my time with, and the joy and the laughter and the humor, you find even at these hard times that we're in now. And, you know, there's always a way to contribute. And there's, and there's a way to have fun doing it.
Rachel Kobus 28:24
I feel that you're saying a lot of collaboration and a lot of positivity is needed. And you show us that so much, Jim, I mean, that is why you are a trailblazer as much as sometimes you say like ‘No, no, there are others.’ But you are in that sense that collaboration is very much key, especially when working in again, activism and civil rights that you can't do it alone. So we are happy that you are a Redbird that has other Redbirds’ backs, regardless of who they are. And you are here to support everyone. And we appreciate you being with us today, too. So is there anything else you want to end with? You want to add? You want to say you want to do you want to get off your chest. Whatever you want to do?
Jim Bennett 29:09
I would say on behalf of our agency that anyone that feels that they've been discriminated for any reason they should contact the Department of Human Rights because, you know, let us determine whether or not there was discrimination that took place, but at least we can start an investigation and there's no charge to anyone. And then just be kind to each other. More than anything at this time, like I think coming out of a pandemic as we start to reconnect and start seeing people face to face again and finding those connections. Just to make to make the best of it and to really find our common humanity, you know, for all of us.
Rachel Kobus 29:56
Well thank you, Jim. Three words, or two words: Be kind. And sometimes it's harder to do than said so. But I think that is great to end on. And so with that, thank you, Jim Bennett, for being with us today and we look forward to hearing from you and seeing all the amazing work you do as a Redbird from Illinois State University.
Jim Bennett 30:17
Oh thank you so much, Rachel. This was a blast.
Rachel Kobus 30:34
That was 1987 graduate Jim Bennett, Illinois Department of Human Rights director. We are thrilled he took the time to share his journey with us today. Tune in next time to read word buzz for more stories from beyond the quad.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai